FORUM : WHAT PRICE HONOUR

Me : I have been reading this book about how much family honour is being placed on the shoulders of the women of their community. As such I am tempted to find out what people understand about "honour" and how they go about treating it or defending it.

Priceless

Me : You mean .....like it is everything? Would you then sacrifice ANYTHING and EVERYTHING for the sake of it?

Sometimes you never know when giving back is the best thing you do in life..you feel good about it and never regret and surely very proud of it.

Counting it is simple. Assume that your monthly pay is RM1500. Total working hours per day is 8 for 25 days per month. That gives you RM7.50 per hour.

Me : Oh, a very interesting view...honour is equivalent to self worth in monetary sense?

In my view Hami dear, the honour for me is more on how I try my best to upkeep my family's standing in the eyes of the community.

In trying to achieve this, how we go about presenting ourselves is what matters most. Honour in this day and time is what the Chinese say to be, waterface. Try not to do anything that can bring shame and thereby dragging our family name through the mud.

While it's never easy to satisfy people in the community to accept us for what we are, there is no harm in trying to do good in whatever we do, and to take into account that whatever we do, there is a chain of reactions. How the chain unfolds depends largely on what we do.

Me : The book I read was "In The Name Of Honour" depicting the story of Mukhtar Mai from a very remote village in Benazir Butto's country. Though the scene was around tribal values which put a lot of restrictions on the females, the bastion of family honour, yet when the perpetrator is a male, revenge is taken out on the female relative of the male. An eye for an eye - so the saying goes. So if one's honour is contravened, you do the same towards the others by taking away their's and it goes on and on.

My hubby thinks this is only western journalism trying to mock or spread lies. But then I have also read another book on Poolen Devi The Bandit Queen from Nehru's country............a similar trait exist more because of the caste system which transcends all religious groups.

The discussion is not so much on the truth in those books but rather on our own perceptions of this word "honour".

My own view on "honour" is like what Dutchy said, waterface. But somehow, I cannot agree if one person is beholden to the honour of everyone else in the family. Sure we share the pride when a member of the family does well and hopefully share the remorse when in sadness too. Sure parents are responsible for nurturing their children, but in the final analysis a person ought to be responsible for his/her own actions and  take account of it. If  he/she makes the wrong choice, why should others be taken down as well? Are we still living by the so called tribal mentality or values? Say, If my parents had a fall out with someone, should I carry on the battle and should my children and their children too? My opinion is we fight our OWN battles not other's.

I concur with your views on 'honour', especially family/tribal honour.

These honour constituted by the society they live in and the individuals are expected to follow the way they are told to live. Say, in our culture the women are expected to look after the husband and kids, if they don't do that they defy their ancestors' belief thus brings down the honour of the family, or;

Say, the working sculptor/carpenter dad is famous for his sculptures and handiwok. His offsprings especially the sons are expected to take over the dad's work. If the kids simply decline or not comparable to his father's work quality he has simply 'dishonored' the family.

That is my own analogy for honor. Anymore ideas?

Tribal honours, family honours, office honours...What about defiance? Honourable defiances? Breaking free, blasting through. Is there such a thing?

Me : To me honour is personal integrity, allegiance to moral principles. Some of these principles are already enshrined in the legal codes of the country but where society is far in the hinterland or untouched by development and progress it may still adhere to traditions. While some traditions may have good reasons for them being there some are just an expression of power. Like, lock up your women and do not teach them too much least you cannot keep them under control. Girls are to be seen but not heard. In some societies women are to look ugly so as not to attract men. So they must cover up from head to toe in black. When her hubby dies she must throw herself into the pyre. Another one - the widow must leave camp and freeze herself in the winter night. They would say that that is their way.

I do not believe that traditions cannot change. It should go in hand with acceptance of change in the way people think and do things. Some people are afraid of change 'cause they know not what is at the other end. So I believe it all boils down to knowledge and need. The concept of liberty and equality took a while and by god how it erupted. It wa perhaps driven by need of the poor and suppressed.Yes, it took defiance to blast through. If it is in defence of what you believe is a God given right, then yes I think it is an honourable defiance.

Me : What about Roman honour?

'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by others, a man deemed honourable. But so too, in the Roman mindset honourable was only what was actually honoured. Glory or honour were also measured only in the recognition it drew from others.'

Hmmm......would what others say be a criterion. This seems to be no stranger in our society. If it's negative then it would be lack of honour.....even shame perhaps? Honour is about value but that value can't really be valued.

Me : Agree that it is based on people's values ....it's price may be valued as how much you would do to defend it. Would you agree to that  then?

Can't agree more.

Note: Hamizao (Hami for short) is my pseudonymn