OF PRIDE

Some people have beliefs such as no pain, no gain. As much as most people think that it's true, I must say that this is a clear demonstration of pride.
I would usually associate this pain with the level of success. It kind of reminds me of a quote from Genghiz Khan...."There is no glory without pain..." something like that... But then that was the age of romance. These days people are more pragmatic. Why then they say "necessity is the mother of invention". People are finding better ways of doing things. I think there are enough challenges out there for all... not to worry, they would find you too.... but to simply look for the more painful thing, I think that had it's time and place.

Poor self esteem? Yes. Having pride in suffering? Yes. Could both exist at the same time? Yes.
I am a bit confused here, dear Agul. I am of the mind that there really is no pride in being subjugated.( If there is no choice then you take it with your chin up). Why do nations cry for independence then?

"Hidden pride" Well, I only know that we often learn not to express pride too effusively when others may be chellenged or offended by it or especially when you are expected to be humble.


We're talking about the kind of pride that hold you back. That ...
My take is true and authentic pride is that which results in goodness such as genuine self esteem and agreeableness etc in the person. It may and may not be displayed. For example, you may observe a mother's pride by the way she beams..............To me pride is all about self preservation.

However, there are other categories of emotions such as contempt, false modesty, stubborn pride, hubris or self-aggrandizing self-esteem and so on that can really put up bigger challenge to the self.

What you label as true and authenthic pride is nearer to courageousness.

In sedona we have emotions that falls on lower scale such as apathy, grief, fear, lust, anger, pride...
On higher scale we have Courageousness, Acceptance and Peace.

Of course we have other method of classification, but I'm using this.

I know you want to buy that book...
If I may elaborate.........true/authentic pride is pride that is well placed. It builds a bonding attitude......"crown of the virtues ," said Aristotle. It should be of good action on our part, done without any base motive. Am rather aware of the various ways pride is defined but to avoid confusion I favour the above. I see pride as one of a host of human emotions like those you mention. Whilst the human emotions are so very essential for self-preservation, the uncontrolled emotions can also be his nemesis. That's why such emotions are referred to as "negative" emotions. They cause destabilization in the function of the human body. If we cannot cope with it, it can cause mental or physical diseases. e.g. anger raises cholesterol levels and heart attack risk by 300%. Wah, am sounding like mbfcsf now!

I gather "negative" pride is usually referred to as false pride. It is different from true pride. It is usually associated with depression and depressed people are often thought to have low self-esteem. There are also those who think depressed people have a high opinion of themselves. So you just need to understand.

What is the difference between pride and this so called self - fulfilling prophecy? In associating this with self - insecurity , I think would be relevant for us as it will affects the way a manager's /leader's governance of a system. That's why they introducing auditing ....this is a good topic related to PRIDE. Hami ..any take on this??? Do you think it is the experienced ones...kinda of interested to know your views on this.
Somehow, I do not see the link between PRIDE and SELF-FULFILLING PROPHESY (SFP)....
To my understanding, SFP has to do with something that's false(on the day) but giving the perception that it is true and somehow ending up as being true. Oh dear, I hope you can fathom that!

It is a play on people's perception. Once the idea (false) is perceived people react to it and consciously or unconsciously cause the "prophecy" to come true. In Malay I think "mulut masin" ( salty mouth) seems to be pretty close.

Sometimes a person my utter such thing with arrogance (not pride). Perhaps this is where some may link it to pride.

Talking about the leader's method, I reckon SFP may, to an extent, be skillfully used to control people. ...much like using the power of imagery to destroy or heal people in the olden days. Ah, that is worth another thread!

SFP could actually be a hindrance in upgrading or towards reaching an effective governance.
Normally, I believe SFP is referred to something bad. If it is good they call it foresight. I guess in modern days people would prefer leaders with foresight.

False humility.Sometime pride can masquarade as false humility.
You know how some people take pride in being humble.
IMHO, someone who has false humility is even worse than someone who's openly prideful.
I once said that TRUE PRIDE is pride well-placed. However, common ethics and religious laws demand that we remain humble because before God we are all nothing. No one is better than the other. I am giving only a general idea here . So, there is humility. As I understand it humility is humility........spiritually. Otherwise it is not.

So, here is false humility .............like pretending to be humble to impress others, say. How does one do this? Is it by aggrandising one's humble actiions?

It's semantic, Hami. So the false humility is not actually humbleness. It is actually a sense of holier than thou, which is a bad kind of pride.
Hmmm............yeah, I have always thought that "holier than thou" attitude is indeed pride....misplaced that is. Same general idea I guess. Such people would hesitate to befriend theless religious.

How can we draw the line between "PRIDE" - and being humble and honest while at the same time you 'd also want to comply with the society's norms etc etc etc ?
Truely, I look at PRIDE in a positive light.....well placed. For example, a mother's pride when her child did her best. We should allow her to have her moment...we feel happy for her too. You know the saying, even "to a mama monkey , her child is a gazelle." So we must understand this mother-child bond. So if PRIDE is well placed there is nothing to frown upon.

I am also aware that some people think mothers (perhaps fathers too) tend to go overboard with their pride such that their "my son this..." and "my son that..." antics may get to the nerves of others. Well I would usually just offer them the remarks "Gee, I am sure you must be very proud of your son". There is no harm in allowing her her moment. She would usually get the messagelah.............

In being humble sometime this is what people tend to display to others even though they are fill with pride. Being snooty is different.....Sometimes it doesn't work to be too humble. So, you must know when to show it and just how much. When you are uncertain, take the medium............You would soon learn.

Here is a story I'd like to share:

The Reducing Ransom - A Saudi Arabian Folk Tale
A bedouin, who had business in the cattle market of a town, lost his young son in the confusion of the place. He hired a crier to shout through the streets that a reward of 1,000 piastere was offered for the return of the child.

The boy's kidnapper heard the crier but greed had opened his belly and he hoped to earn an even larger sum. So he waited and said nothing.

The following day, the crier was sent through the streets again. This time the sum offered was 500 piasters. The kidnapper still held out. To his surprise, on the third day the crier offered a mere 100 piasters. He hurried to return the boy and collect his reward.

Curious, he asked the father why the reward had dwindled from day to day. The Father said,

"On the first day, my son was angry and refused to eat your food. Is that not so?"

"Yes," agreed the kidnapper.

"On the second day he took a little, and on the last he asked for bread of his own accord," said the father.

It had been so, the kidnapper agreed.

"Well," said the father, "as I judge it, that first day my son was unblemished as refined gold. Like a man of honour, he refused to break bread with his captor. To bring him back with his pride untarnished; I was ready to pay 1,000 piasters.

"On the second day, when hunger made him forget the conduct of a nobleman, he accepted food at your table, and I offered 500 piasters for him."

"But then he had been reduced to begging humbly for food, his return was worth but 100 piasters for me."


ENJOY THE STORY THINKERS!